Weight Loss

Okay, so after my last post some people got it and some people are just more confused.  Hopefully this will help, especially because I don't have enough time to answer a bunch of individual emails.

The feature on CC for estimated burned cals/day depending on activity is a great tool, however the allowance tool should be shot.  Here is why

The expenditure tool uses the Harris Benedict Formula which calculates your BMR.

Men: BMR = 66 + (13.7 X wt in kg) + (5 X ht in cm) - (6.8 X age in years)

Women: BMR = 655 + (9.6 X wt in kg) + (1.8 X ht in cm) - (4.7 X age in years)

this is the number of calories your body would need if you slept all day long and did not move.

You then mulitple this number by an activity factor to see how much you burn

I prefer to choose a sedentary excercise level and add in my workouts, If you want you can choose an activity level that already includes your workouts

Activity Multiplier
Sedentary = BMR X 1.2 (little or no exercise, desk job)
Lightly active = BMR X 1.375 (light exercise/sports 1-3 days/wk)
Mod. active = BMR X 1.55 (moderate exercise/sports 3-5 days/wk)
Very active = BMR X 1.725 (hard exercise/sports 6-7 days/wk)
Extr. active = BMR X 1.9 (hard daily exercise/sports & physical job or 2X day training, i.e marathon, contest etc.)

Your food intake should never go below your BMR. Now your BMR is an estimate.  It can change with a number of factors that a calculation cannot account for.  An extremely muscular person will actually have a higher BMR than calculated, and a person with a considerable amount of weight to lose will actually have a lower BmR than calculated. Also your BMR will change as you lose weight and need to be recalculated.

**now when saying you should not go below your BMR, do not not go below your healthy weight BMR.  For example, if you have 100 lbs to lose, figure out what your bmr would be at your healthy weight (to have a healthy BMI) And fool around with that number. this is why doctors will tell some of their patients to eat less than their bmr.  When you are overweight your BMR is taking in account the energy required to carry all that weight.  At a healthy BMR there isn't much extra weight to carry.  Me for example, I'm already in a healthy BMI range so eating below my BMR is not good, but someone is is overweight and has a BMR of 1800 and their healthy goal weight has a BMR of 1400, could probably get away with eating 1400 and be ok.  If this is your case, talk to a dr!

When you mark sedentary on CC the tool will automatically multiply your BMR by an activity factor to calculate what you burn in a normal day without any vigorous activity (a desk job).  This is where the mistake comes in.  For example my sedentary calories burned is 1700 so when i used the tool to see how much I should eat it gave me 1200 cal.  My BMR is 1440.  For four months I ate 1200 cals and did not workout, I had a deficit but I wasn't eating enough for my body to maintain its normal functions.  To make up for the 240 cal my body was not getting it started to use my lean muscle tissue, which in effect lowered my metabolism and I gained 15lbs.  How could I gain 15 pounds when i was eating less than I burned?  My metabolism had slowed down so much and my body held everything I eat just incase I decided to stop eating.  Your body is smart and will do everything to keep it alive.  Once I figured this out I started eating about 1400-1500 cals per day and did not have any time to workout.  So just working and going to class I had about a 200-300 deficit each day.  3 months later I had dropped 10 lbs by eating MORE!

So how do you figure out how much to eat.

BMR x activity level + exercise - desired deficit = how much you shoud eat.

Me for example

22, 5'5, 134 lbs.

BMR = 1440, sedentary (1.2 activity factor)

1440(BMR) x 1.2(activity factor) + 300 (exercise) -500(desired deficit) = 1528 cals/day

According to this caculation if I workout 300 cals, I can eat 1528 cal/day and lose 1lb per week.  Now with this same equation if I changed my deficit to 600 it would = 1428 to eat each day.  this is below my BMR so if I want a 600 def. I need to increase my excercise because i cannot decrease my food any more. 

If I used a mod activity level (1.375) which already includes some working out

1440 x 1.375 - 500 = 1480. 

so you can see the numbers come out a little differently with different levels, I feel adding excercise to my sedentary level is more accurate, but that is just for me.

BMR is an estimate, it just gives you a starting point to see how much you can eat.  BMR fluctuates and is affected by many factors.  The best thing to do is use this as a starting point and see how it works for you.

Like I mentioned before about eating to little and lowering your metabolism.  If you eat to little (below BMR) your body will start using its lean muscle tissue for energy and therefore decreasing your muscle and metabolism.  This may appear as a weight loss on a scale initially.  the weight lose will then stop when your body can no longer take any more lean tissue.  AT this point your metab. is very slow and your body starts to store.

How do you know if you are losing lean tissue and not fat.  the best way is to have your fat % taken.  If you are losing weight and your fat % has not changed then you are losing muscle and that's bad. 

I have a body caliper that is used on one fold.  It is not as accurate as the one that measures several different folds, but it can be done by you and in the privacy of your own home and gives you a general idea.  grab the fold about 1 inch above your right hip and use the caliper to gauge your body fat.  Here is how I use the number to see if I'm losing fat or muscle.

134 lbs at 18% body fat = 24.12 lbs fat

lets say i lose 4 lbs and am still at 18% fat

130 lbs at 18% = 23.4 lbs fat

as you can see the body fat went down, but out of 4 lbs lost only .72 was body fat.  The other 3.28 was a combination of things, but mainly lean muscle tissue.  this is not good and your metabolism will suffer.

Now just so folks do not get alarmed, If you are eating correctly, you will lose some lean mass when you lose fat.  It is impossible to just lose fat, the ratio of how much fat to lean muscle is the important factor.  Like the example, if only a quater of the weight loss is fat, then you need to change things around.  This is why weight training is so important.  You are going to lose some lean body mass when losing weight, the weight training helps to counter this.

Here is a great website: http://www.shapefit.com/basal-metabolic-rate. html

Also, there is an electronic book that you can buy on the internet that is called. Burn the Fat, Feed the Muscle.  It is $35 and well worth it.  It completely explains how the body burns and stores, how to calculate BMR, body fat %...everything.  It even gives workout schedules and explains how much you should of carbs v protein v. fat... everything.  Very easy to understand and will really help you out.

http://www.burnthefat.com/ BUY IT!

If you have any questions for me specifically post it rather than email, because CC only lets me send 2 messages/day.

I must say, this eating at BMR has me fascinated, being a former 1200 calorie/day follower.  I always feel starved at the end of the day when I do the 1200 calories, but I always felt that was "normal". 

Has anyone lost weight just by eating your BMR?  Please, do tell! 

i've lost 10 lbs in 3 months and didn't set foot in a gym.  I had gained 15 lbs by eatting 1200 cals/day (at sedentary i burn 1700, so CC told me to eat 1200) in 4months i gained 15lbs by eatting to little.  As soon as I bumped my cals to 1450-1500 (my BMR is 1436) I lost 10 lbs in 3 months.  I am a little more active in sedentary as I try to walk around at work as much as possible and to and from my car is a decent walk.  Also try going to caloriesperhour.com and logging in absolutely everything you do through out the day, all 24 hrs, showering, getting dressed ,sleeping, making food, everything and you will get a semi accurate cals burned.  When I did that for my "sedentary day" i burned 1926 cals, and the equations said at sedentary I burn 1700, so there is wiggle room.  YOu need to try what works best for you.  1400-1500 is a good amount of food for me that i can consistantly lose weight on and it happens to follow my BMR.  So i say BMR is a good starting point and then just adjust from there.

This makes so much sense to me!  CC had given me 1200 as an allowance, and not only was I starving at that amount, I put on a few pounds.  I finally worked off my expenditure numbers and arrived at 1600 calories, which seems to work perfectly: It's a decent amount of good food, I'm seldom hungry, and I lose weight, even if I don't exercise.   Turns out, it's also my BMR.

Could someone please check my calculations?

I'm 26, 5"5', 204 lb., sedentary activity.

Does that mean my BMR is 1903?

My current eat meter suggests 1350, and I exercise anywhere from 200-1000 cals a day (which I eat back to a 1000 deficient).  Am I starving myself? 

I used a bmr calculator for you stats and got BMR of 1726 and burning 2071 at sedentary.  Depending on how much you burn would depend on what you ate that day.  2071+ excercise - deficit = amount to eat.   These estimates may not be correct for you.  I would ask a doctor, because they can give you a better answer.  sometimes it is healthy to eat less than your BMR depending on how much weight you have to lose. 

From what I have been told, you should not eat below your BMR for your healthy weight.  I am in a healthy weight range bmi of 23, so eating below my BMR is bad bad bad.  Your bmi is higher than the "healthy range".  So eating less than your bmr would probably not hurt you because your bmr is taking in account the energy needed to carry excess weight.  Calculate what the bmr is for your goal weight.  For example my BMR is 1440, i'm 22 5'4.5" and 134 lbs.  So 1350 does not sound too extreme to me because it is around the bmr for a healthy weight range of your height and age.  Again, the best thing to do is talk to a doctor. 

You are probably so tired of questions.  But I am still confused.  My BMR is 1400.  I multiplied by 1.2 to get 1680 and added in 426 for the amount of my exercise, then subtracted the 75 for the sedentary hour for a total of 1751.  If I subtract 500 for the amount of weight loss, it comes to 1251.  You said not to go below BMR - which for me is 1400.  Does that mean that I have to work out to burn another 150 calories and eat 1400 calories?   I have been eating, for the last month, 1000-1300 calories, burning 425 calories a day 5 days a week and have not lost an ounce.  What about on days that I don't want to exercise?  I need a couple of days off!  Using the calculation you gave, I would only need 1100 calories on non-work-out days -  but isn't that too low? 

Original Post by kbrocco:

You are probably so tired of questions.  But I am still confused.  My BMR is 1400.  I multiplied by 1.2 to get 1680 and added in 426 for the amount of my exercise, then subtracted the 75 for the sedentary hour for a total of 1751.  If I subtract 500 for the amount of weight loss, it comes to 1251.  You said not to go below BMR - which for me is 1400.  Does that mean that I have to work out to burn another 150 calories and eat 1400 calories?   I have been eating, for the last month, 1000-1300 calories, burning 425 calories a day 5 days a week and have not lost an ounce.  What about on days that I don't want to exercise?  I need a couple of days off!  Using the calculation you gave, I would only need 1100 calories on non-work-out days -  but isn't that too low? 

Your math is wrong, 1680 + 426 - 75 = 2031, if you subtract 500 from this number you would get 1531 which is above your bmr of 1400. You can have a deficit of 500 cal/day without upping your exercise.

Ok, that's embarassing.  Thank you.  Any advice for "off days"?  Should I just stay at 1400 or drop to 1200?

Stay at 1400

I didn't read any of this...just sort of skimming through... but just stopped to say that I really loved your 'title' up at the top...very eye-catching and I'm sure your complaints/frustrations/comments are really legit. I've struggled through all this before on my own...glad to see this discussion is happening...

dang! you rock too!

To all the people worried about adding an activity to your log and the fact that the time is already accounted for, CC seems to have accounted for that.  The next time you log an activity, first look at what your count is at.  After you log it, look at the number it says that that burned, and then check your tracker again.  The count will not go up by that full amount, but rather by some smaller amount (I don't know the math they use and I'm not gonna pretend I do). 

well, after looking over the forum posts i told a few people to come to this forum to get info. The BMR issue is rampant among cal counters like myself!

Burn the Fat not the Muscle is an excellent book - if you are a body builder with an unhealthy body fat content (BMI less than 18.5).  It does not work too well for those who are overweight (BMI greater than 25).  When you reduce your body fat below a certain level, it is very hard to burn body fat.  Body builders try all kinds of tricks and eat tons of dangerous supplements to try to reduce fat to dangerously low levels.  Often their body building advice leaks into the weight loss community and is mis-applied; but highly profitted from. 

The highest rated diet book by real EXPERTS in this field is VOLUMETRICS - you can pick it up for as little as ten bucks.

BMR is an arbitrary number.  The variance for the individual is as much 30%.  Why?  Because BMR is an average obtained by measurements of a lot of people.  It is often referred to as an absolute number on this site - it is not.  It is a very rough estimate on how many calories the average person of your weight burns per day.  It is OK to use as a guide on setting calorie goals, but it has little or no value after that.   The confusion has set into these boards when a small group spammed the false idea that eating below the BMR will decrease the ability to lose weight.   Several sources provide well based data on setting calorie goals to assist in losing weight, including CC - use those, not the arbitrary thoughts of some posters on this board.

"if you are a body builder with an unhealthy body fat content (BMI less than 18.5).  It does not work too well for those who are overweight (BMI greater than 25)."

-Actually, most bodybuilders have BMI's which put them in the overweight or obese category. 

"BMR is an arbitrary number.  The variance for the individual is as much 30%.  Why?  Because BMR is an average obtained by measurements of a lot of people.  It is often referred to as an absolute number on this site - it is not."

-BMR is not arbitrary, the variance for an individuals BMR is very low, the variance for the models used to estimate BMR may be higher (or it might not, you didn't provide a source for your 30% number).  The estimates obained using the BMR calculator often sited here is just that, an estimate, not an exact number.  But it is a much better estimate for most people than the 1200 calorie minimum that usually get's used on this site.

Currently, my BMI is 30.4, and around 10-12% bodyfat. My goal weight gives me a BMI of 29.1 - and around 7% bodyfat.

 And I'm not even a bodybuilder. But I'm definitely using the information in Tom Venuto's book to plan out my diet - it's the single most complete collection of diet and fitness information out there. You can find all of the information for free on your own if you're willing to invest a lot of time and research, but why bother, when Venuto's put it together for you?

 Volumetrics is just a fancy way of saying "Eat like MollyMouser" - find low-calorie, high-volume foods that are filling and satisfy your calorie needs. It works, by controlling calories and making it easier to stay within a healthy deficit, but it's by no means the "best" or "highest rated by experts" approach. The approach that most experts who don't have their own book and miracle drug to sell you recommends is a combination of counting calories and exercise - in other words, welcome to CC!

 Count your calories, eat enough that you don't startle or scare the life out of your body, do what exercise you can, and work with your body for a healthy and sustainable loss.

What Liz said, in other words.

Original Post by floggingsully:

"if you are a body builder with an unhealthy body fat content (BMI less than 18.5).  It does not work too well for those who are overweight (BMI greater than 25)."

-Actually, most bodybuilders have BMI's which put them in the overweight or obese category. 

Exactly - advice for body builders does not fall into the realm of normal people.  The variance on BMR is very high - the mere mention of the "starvation mode" is an extremist attempt to describe a simple BMR variance.    Of course, if you read Venuto - we go into that mode if we did not eat in the last three hours.   The only time 1200 comes into play is the minimum safe calories for females.  It is often abused and used as a goal because some dieters think they must use the extreme to rapidly meet their goals.   Many abusers are already at a healthy weight.   BMR is nice to use as a guide for setting daily caloric goals - but is not the minimizing factor for the minimum goal factor.  Obese and overweight individuals can safely eat a reduced calorie diet to propagate weight loss. 

It is false to perpetuate the idea that eating below your BMR will cause a huge BMR variance ("starvation mode") and make you gain weight.  

 

Hi lizshuler, Thanks so much for your post. Could you please check this for me and see if i have it right? After I compute the numbers i get confused

I'm 30, started out at 277, but at 255 right now. Goal weight is 135. I'm 5'1.5"

My bmr at my current weight is 1912. ( x1.2= 2294)

My bmr at my GOAL weight is 1385.    (x1.2= 1662)

I'm trying to figure out what I should be eating at a sedentary lifestyle and then i can adjust it for exercise after I figure that.

So according to this, in order to lose weight,  should i use 2294 - deficit (600) = 1694. Since this is still above my goal weight bmr i should be ok to eat around 1700 calories per day? And if i want to increase my deficit i have to do so with exercise because a greater deficit than 600 calories would put me below my goal bmr?

Thanks in advance. Every time i think i understand this i start thinking well no that doesnt sound right because.... lol!

I think 1700 would be a perfect place to start.  600 cal deficit is not to harsh, but will get things done!  Because the BMR for you healthy weight is 1385 you can increase your deficit without increasing your food.  (900 cal deficit would bring you to the 1385 number) so technically you could eat 1385 and be okay, but I wouldn't recommend that because that is a pretty big deficit.  I would suggest zig zagging between 1500 (700 def) and 1800 (500 def) .  As you get closer to your weight, you will burn less doing the same activities, and that is when you should start eating closer to the 1385.

Thanks so much for your help! I truely appreciate it.